Myers Musings: Not All Women Are Like That

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It has always struck me that a lot of PU advice seems to describe all women as more like the ESFP party girl. While it is true that the bars and clubs where PUAs operate will probably attract a greater than expected number of ESFP, in Myers-Briggs terms, not all women are like that.

I have created a list of all types and their expected numbers in the overall population. The list descends in frequency of type; it is not in any order of preference or suggested gameability or desirability.

There were two sources for the list:

  1. http://www.capt.org/mbti-assessment/estimated-frequencies.htm
  2. http://www.theanconas.com/MBTI/mfstats.htm posted by paige on an In Male Fide thread

The large number is the average of the CAPT range. The (blue number) is the CAPT average for men. I show the details of CAPT range and the Ancona number below the listing.

Although not a PUA, I have listed how I feel a type may react to various approaches. Type is not destiny and people can surprise you. My type (INTP) is theoretical, so take it all with a good rattle of the saltshaker. In any case, the comments are at least a little tongue-in-cheek (mine not hers).

The type examples are more about those who I think match an archetype, rather than any knowledge of the person’s preferences. As I used public figures, I used their public personae, not a guess of their actual personality. For example I use Ke$ha as an ESFP, because her personae (such that I know it) seems like an example (perhaps extreme) of an ESFP.

I based the section on Drive/Needs on the preference order of cognitive processes for each type (first two). I discussed this in an earlier post.

I used Celebrity Types for suggestions where I had no guesses, but my suggestions do not always agree with theirs. Where we disagreed, I used my guess. I am open to corrections or suggestions from readers, especially where I have no guesses. I avoided actresses because it is difficult to separate the person and various roles she has played.

The                      bar shows the relative frequency of the type in females compared to males. More pink means the type is relatively more “popular” amongst females. For example: ISFJ appears with greater relative frequency amongst females, ISTP appears with greater relative frequency amongst males.

The Countdown

ISFJ 17.5%      (7.0%)                      
[CAPT=15-20%, Ancona=19.4%]
May appear modest and reserved. Probably is modest and reserved. The most obvious peacocking may put her off.
Drives/Needs: Practical and grounded (Si) seeking affiliation and offering friendly service to others (Fe)
Examples: Celebrity Types suggested Mother Teresa (I might have put her as INFJ)


ESFJ 14.5%      ( 6.5%)                      
[CAPT=12-17%, Ancona=16.9%]
In PU terms she may be the mother hen. She will be protective of the group, and responsive to its opinions. If she cockblocks, it is likely out of protective instincts and feelings of proprietary rather than malice. If you are interested in another girl, you will have to win her over. If you are interested in her, you will have to win the group over.
Drives/Needs: Affiliation and friendliness (Fe) grounded in practicality (Si)
Examples: Celebrity Types suggested Sarah Palin


ENFP 9.0%      (6.0%)                      
[CAPT=8-10%, Ancona=9.7%]
Likely more reserved than the ESFP, may even appear shy or introverted. Less driven by sensation than imagination. Verbal cleverness not furry hats, or card tricks are probably what you need.
Drives/Needs: Use enthusiam, creativity and imagination (Ne) to express empathy and idealism (Fi).
Examples: Celebrity Types suggested Arianna Huffington and Maureen Dowd.


ESFP 8.5%      (5.0%)                      
[CAPT=7-10%, Ancona=10.1%]
She is, the party girl. Loud, proud, and out for a good time. While not necessarily slutty, she will dress and act for impact. She cares less about what others think, and more about what she feels in the moment. Cerebral guys need not apply. Get your peacocking gear and extravert attitude on and she might be going home with you.
Drives/Needs: Sensation, sensuality, excitement (Se) and the need to experience and share emotion (Fi)
Examples: Ke$ha or any number of similar pop-tarts.


ISTJ 8.5%      (16.5%)                      
[CAPT=7-10%, Ancona=6.9%]
Sensible and serious. Probably modestly (even if stylishly) dressed. If she goes home with you, it is only do your accounting or organize your filing system.
Drives/Needs: Practical and grounded (Si) organized, efficient and sometimes competitive (Te).
Examples: Possibly Condi Rice (could also be ESTJ).


ISFP 8.0%      (6.0%)                      
[CAPT=6-10%, Ancona=9.9%]
The artsy type. More sensitive than the ESFP. A romantic with earthy undertones. Although more reserved in dress and manner, she will have a style of her own. Driven less by impulse but more by her own inner feelings.
Drives/Needs: Feelings of empathy and connection (Fi) with in-the-moment experience (Se).
Examples: Possibly Taylor Swift or Kari Byron (see ISTP).


ESTJ 7.0%      (11.0%)                      
[CAPT=6-8%, Ancona=6.3%]
The practical and bossy type. If you have a thing for school-marm types you are in luck. Even more than the ESFJ, she may play mother hen. The difference is there will be more malice in he cockblocking.
Drives/Needs: To compete, organize, and schedule self and others (Te) while remaining aware of practicalities (Si)
Examples: Judith Sheindlin (Judge Judy), Condi Rice (Condi could also be ISTJ).


INFP 5.5%     (4.0%)                      
[CAPT=4-7%, Ancona=4.6%]
The poetic and sensitive type. Little or no “negging” needed, indeed overdoing that may just hurt her. Bars and clubs are not her natural hangout, if she goes it is to be with friends. More dreamy and less earthy than the ISFP, will look for a deeper connection.
Drives/Needs: Deep inner connection with self and others (Fi) based on imagination and creativity (Ne).
Example: Princess Diana


ENFJ 4.5%     (2.0%)                      
[CAPT=3-6%, Ancona=3.3%]
Like the ESFJ, she may be protective of the group. As an NF, she marches more to her own beat, and may be less enthrall to group opinion.
Drives/Needs: Connect with and inspire others (Fe) using creativity and imagination (Ne).
Example: Oprah Winfrey


INFJ 3.0%      (1.5%)                      
[CAPT=2-4%, Ancona=1.6%]
The type that may seem hard to understand, yet can understand you. A mixture of otherworldiness and practicality. Can probably spot, and does not appreciate, the players.
Drives/Needs: Gain insights into self and others (Ni) and use that to help others (Fe)
Examples: suggestions please. I would have put Mother Theresa here but Celebrity Types puts her as ISFJ and that may be a better guess. Brightstormyday suggested Amelie, as played by Audrey Tautou.


ESTP 3.0%      (5.5%)                      
[CAPT=2-4%, Ancona=3.0%]
Like the ESFP, only brutally pragmatic. Be careful.
Drives/Needs: Seek new experiences and excitement (Se) and understand and put them to practical use (Ti).
Example: Madonna


ENTP 3.0%      (5.0%)                      
[CAPT=2-4%, Ancona=2.4%]
The clever type that loves to outplay the player. Even more than the ENFP, probably likes cleverness in her suitors.
Drives/Needs: Seek to engage others with possibilities and new ideas (Ne) understand and put them to practical use (Ti)
Example: Celebrity Types suggested Camille Paglia.


ISTP 2.5%      (7.5%)                      
[CAPT=2-3%, Ancona=2.4%]
The tomboy. Supposedly the nerd-boy dream; she likes guns and stuff. Dressed nicely she may look like an ISFP, but she may not bother with such pretense.
Drives/Needs: Understand the physical world, learn how things work (Ti) seek out new experiences and adventure (Se).
Examples: Danica Patrick, Kari Byron (based on her Mythbusters gun-totin’ activities, though she could also be ISFP)


ENTJ 2.5%      (4.5%)                      
[CAPT=1-4%, Ancona=0.9%]
The Amazon, DC lawyer, corporate finance chick. If you like that kind of thing, good luck. She does offer the chance to practice “negs” and handling shit tests.
Drives/Needs: Compete in and organize the world (Te) based on clear inner vision (Ni).
Examples: Margaret Thatcher, Ann Coulter


INTJ 2.0%      (4.0%)                      
[CAPT=1-3%, Ancona=0.8%]
They seem to love bad boys. If you have an inner asshole, let him out. If you do not have an inner asshole then move on. Probably wants a mean ESTP man.
Drives/Needs: Seek moments of inspiration while creating a clear inner vision of the world (Ni) argue that vision from evidence and implement it by self, or by directing others.
Examples: Ayn Rand, Hilary Clinton


INTP 2.0%      (5.5%)                      
[CAPT=1-3%, Ancona=1.8%]
Nerd-boy meet nerd-girl. She is still a woman, but may better tolerate discussions of Star Trek, Star Wars, and other nerdy pursuits. May appear cool and unresponsive (especially compared to ExFP types). May be sensitive beneath that cool logical exterior. Along with the INFP, probably very easygoing and undemanding.
Drives/Needs: Seek to understand systems and processes, use that understanding to explain to others (Ti) while using leaps of imagination and creativity (Ne).
Examples: Suggestions? Celebrity Types have Kari Byron, but I am not buying.


Notes:

I love that Celebrity Types has Osama Bin Laden as INFJ. Yes “FJ” not INTJ. They also have Mystery, Marilyn Manson, and Hitler as INFJ.
[http://www.celebritytypes.com/philosophers/#INFJ]

I was surprised how high ENFP showed, and the relatively small number of ESFP (I guess they make up for it in volume)

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14 Responses to “Myers Musings: Not All Women Are Like That”

  1. maurice Says:

    Interesting. but as we know, a female’s SMV is mostly based on how attractive she is. And as most women have a pretty accurate sense, on whatever level, of their own SMV, it makes one wonder (in the context of this particular abstract exercise) how each of the types above would be expressed in the behavior of attractive vs unattractive women. Sought-after vs unsought-after, etc. Particularly their courtship/mating behaviors. (This is a corner of the Roissysphere, after all, is it not-?) Celebrities would seem to always be the attractive/alpha-female types- what about the wallflowers?

  2. Default User Says:

    @Maurice

    This is a corner of the Roissysphere, after all, is it not

    I will not disown Roissy three (or even one) times (even if it is Easter). However, while most know me from Roissy/Ferdinand, I am not sure I am considered part of the PUAsphere. I do not really discuss game (at least not directly).

    but as we know, a female’s SMV is mostly based on how attractive she is.

    Looks play an important part in setting a women’s SMV, but they are not the only thing. Attitude counts: a shy woman’s lack of eye contact or lack of smile may be taken as disinterest, the direct manner of an xxTJ woman may appear bitchy, and so on.

    Because we (as men) are so focused on looks, we can forget the other factors that draw us in. If she does not issue IOIs, if she appears unresponsive to our game, if she becomes “hard work,” we may just give up (or not try). Yet, all of these things would also appear in woman that was interested but shy.

    It is easy to forget that shyness, lack of confidence, or unease in social situations do hamper a women too. The extraverted and social woman will attract our attention. She will issue the required IOIs (you are not the only one though). She will respond to your conversation in a lively manner. Shyness is less destructive to a woman’s attractiveness, but it is not without cost. Shyness and introversion are not the same thing, but they may look the same.

    . . .it makes one wonder (in the context of this particular abstract exercise) how each of the types above would be expressed in the behavior of attractive vs unattractive women. Sought-after vs unsought-after, etc. Particularly their courtship/mating behaviors.

    As examples:
    I would guess that INFP and ENFP women are hardest on themselves, most likely to disclaim any belief in their attractiveness. This is not false modesty but genuine doubts. Even a beautiful xNFP woman will doubt, or perhaps even fear, the power of her beauty. Princess Diana is a classic example: literally a beautiful princess, but yet never found happiness.

    ESxP will enjoy the attention. An ESFP Princess Diana would have loved all the attention. An unattractive ESFP will still seek attention, perhaps even in negative ways. The fat chick slutting it up of Roissysphere discussions, may well be an ESFP.

    I suppose the point is that within the broad tenets of game, it is all about calibration: the flashiness that would interest an ESFP might put off an ISTJ; what would be mild level assholery for an ENTJ would be crushing to an INFP; what seems wishy/washy to an INTJ might seem just right to an ISFP; and so on.

  3. Hope Says:

    My husband and I are both INFJ, which would explain why we took to each other so effortlessly. We have some serious chemistry.

    It also explains why he learned game but didn’t really care to use it. Seems like I*TJs tend to love game.
    [DU: My guess is:
    xNTJ love to learn about game to increase their efficiency.
    xNTP love to learn about game because they just love to learn about stuff.
    xNFJ might study game, but do not love it, and may see it as unfair.
    xNFP would never study game, but if aware, see it as too cool and calculating.
    S types just want pick up lines, forget that boring theory.
    It does not surprise me that two NFs would connect on a deep level. There is no law that says they should, but if they do, it will be a powerful bond]

  4. David Foster Says:

    A Jungian psychologist spoke about the M-B types at a management class I once attended, and made the points that (a)you will be naturally inclined to hire people of the same type as yourself, and (b) you should resist this tendency, because if you surround yourself by people of your own type, you will share the same blind spots and will happily all walk off the cliff together.

    Purely as speculation, could there be a similar evolutionary reason for attraction to prospective mates of complementary rather than identical types?
    [DU: That makes sense, from both a business and personal point. You could probably break up large organizations into MB tribes. Each type will cluster together within certain functional areas. The organization has all types, but different areas have their own blind spots.
    SJ: Logistics; rules, regulations, paperwork, execution of plans (especially STJ).
    SP: Tactics; firefighting, troubleshooters, sales, crisis management.
    NT: Strategy; analysis, new product development, IT, crisis prevention.
    NF: Diplomatic; considering human needs of customers and employees. Smoothing feathers ruffled by the plans and activities of the other types. Barely used in most corporations. May be found, along with ISFP, in interface and product design.
    I have never seen a convincing description of type-matching for romance. Most theories look at type differences but do not consider sex differences (e.g., matching forceful and direct types with quieter relaxed types without considering male/female dynamics). After the event you can probably explain the success or not using type interactions (e.g., the ESFP woman may be attracted to the quiet stability of an ISTJ man who balances her frenetic style, despite theory that says she should be bored).]

  5. brightstormyday Says:

    a good example of a female INFJ is Amelie, played by Audrey Tautou.
    [DU: Thanks. I have added her to the INFJ entry. What do you think of my description of the type? There are some entries that could be better, although I think the INFJ one is ok.]

  6. David Foster Says:

    I think NFs sometimes do very well in sales…especially if they are ENFJs, since the successful salesman needs to be *both* responsive and assertive.

    “Each type will cluster together within certain functional areas”…yes, I think personality types play a role in what I have called “functional chauvanism,” which is a very serious problem in many organizations. It is at its worst when a business becomes large and complex but is still organized along strictly functional lines; it can be made less-damaging, though never wholly eliminated, by more thoughtful forms of organization design.
    [DU: I have thought of organizing people by “skill sets” (even if temperament is not really a skill) and have them work across functional boundaries. Instead of working for a single department, you would work for one of: the corporate crash team (SP), Diplomatic corp (NF), Policies and procedures (SJ), or Strategy and Technology (NT). Projects would pull from each of the “skill” groupings. If a project goes awry you call the crash and diplomatic team. To prevent a project going awry you would engage the Policies and procedures people, etc.]

  7. maurice Says:

    Purely as speculation, could there be a similar evolutionary reason for attraction to prospective mates of complementary rather than identical types?

    @DF- I am reading “Sperm Wars” now (finally) and it’s really astonishing how both sexes are programmed with deep behaviors (and bodily functions) to seek out genetic diversity and superiority. Of course personality types are more complex, but perhaps there’s something similar going on in the old “opposites attract” trope- mixing up personality types (which have a genetic component) to provide a healthier (more rounded?) offspring. Food for thought.
    [DU: Very likely. I have nothing to add, but what you say makes sense. Within the confines of expected roles (and they do count in the real world outside of academia, etc,) I think we look for some form of complementarity in our romantic partners.]

  8. Myers Musings: In Pictures « Default User Says:

    […] Default User Currently in beta test. « Myers Musings: Not All Women Are Like That […]

  9. David Foster Says:

    DU…”organizing people by “skill sets””…you might enjoy the work of management consultant Itzhak Adizes, who advocates a similar approach–see especially his book How to Solve the Mismanagement Crisis.

    I think there is much to be said for organizing around *mission* to the extent possible.
    [DU: Thanks, I will look up Adizes]

  10. Myers Musings: How Chicks Annoy « Default User Says:

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  11. Myers Musings: Matchmaking by Type « Default User Says:

    […] by a comment from Maurice on the possible evolutionary basis for seeking complementary (as compared to similar) types I […]

  12. echosanswer Says:

    Amelie is INFJ. A good example of an INFJ woman may be Cate Blanchett.

    Also, people often like people different from them for romance. My ESFP sister often likes ISTJs. She likes to be the center of attention, to have an audience, & the ISTJ obliges. She also likes smart men who read. She likes intellect, just not the pretentious kind. Pea-cocking would strike her as annoying. She’d mock the guy.

  13. echosanswer Says:

    I meant Amelie is INFP. Oops.

  14. Female/INTJ Says:

    Warning: not a native speaker.
    As a female INTJ, sometimes I catch myself seeing bad boys as losers. I don’t find them attractive at all. I’ve never seen a man who could possibly dominate me so I started to like men with more fragile features; emotionally and physically. I like being the protective, strong, dominant one.

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